How much does the average Sec'y/Treasurer earn?

[Skip Horner]

I got into a discussion with the manager at the bowling center where my league is, and I was trying to tell him that the "going rate" for being a league's secretary/treasurer is about 25 cents/bowler/week. He's trying to tell me "No way", so I figured I'd go right to the source...

I can understand if you don't want to post that, but if a few of you could list what you average per bowler per week, I'd be grateful.

Me? It works out to about 31 cents/bowler/week (I get a "fixed yearly rate", as opposed to a set value per bowler).

Thanks in advance.

[Lance Rasmussen]

For all the leagues I have done secretary work, it was 25 cents per bowler per week, except for our majors league, which was 40 cents per bowler, due to more financial work needed.

I was always expected to purchase the software our of my own earnings. Since I did league sheets for multiple leagues, it wasn't a big deal.

[Angel Zobel-Rodriguez]

I refuse a salary in my A/J leagues (which always stirs the "triple her salary" comments from the peanut gallery). Currently, I'm employed by the center--not for the actual hours I put in, but I just don't believe that I need a salary.

In my sport league, it's paid at $15 per bowler per season (summer same as winter). In the winter, it amounts to .45 cents per bowler per week. In the summer, quite a bit more. The real work for a league comes from right before the league to the first couple of weeks (confirming teams, league app, sanctioning, meeting to go over rules and then typing out suggested and approved changes, then it's quiet until the last night of league from counting out the prize fund and running sweeper. Weekly, I run the brackets at no charge to the league. The $5 collected from each bracket goes into a fund that gives the regular bracket participants free brackets on sweeper night. My husband takes the lane tapes every week, so that's a bonus as well.

I've never bowled anywhere where they pay per bowler per week, although I continue to see that's pretty common in other parts of the country. Secretary salaries here are usually $10 per bowler and some are creeping toward $12 and $13 and that's for the traditional 32-36 week league as well as the summer seasons. Mind you, most secretaries use the house to bank, the house does sheets, the house collects the league fees, and many houses even compile the league awards.

I think this thread would be even more valuable to secretaries if each stated what is expected of them by their leagues.

[Marti Murphy]

In my parts of the country - florida, tampa bay area - all the secys in my center are charging 50 cents per bowler, per night. Split 50/50 with treasurer if they are not doing that also. They buy their own program, print their own recap sheets and provide the center with a weekly backup of the league.
Some houses in the area are including the service with the price of bowling now at a lower rate, maybe 30 cents a night per bowler, and that seems to be the way to wave of the future down here.
Marty Murphy - Liberty Lanes

[Frank Goebel]

Per my league's by-laws, if a member serves as both secretary and treasurer, there are no dues paid all season. So the variance would be to what the weekly dues would be; last season was $17, so for a season would have been $544. It would have worked out to roughly 19 cents per bowler per night.

With each position being held by itself, the officer was responsible for paying only the prize fund portion of dues. Compensation was the cost of lineage. These numbers may seem low, but last season was $7.50 per night, 88 bowlers, or about 9 cents per bowler per night.

This year's lineage went to $8.55 per night...only 80 bowlers this year, so effective we're being paid 11 cents per bowler.

Note that no consideration is given for the size of the league in this case. In this neck of the woods it's paid more as a function of dues and/or lineage.

Now, for those that read my first post: It's up in the air how the league will compensate me. I really enjoy being secretary and I won't harp too much, but I'm not going to be on a team (at least not for awhile). But I'll be an available sub. In my league, subs pay $8 to bowl, so I'm guessing they'd waive that fee for me. (In fact, I think the treasurer would do it without prompting.) I'll have to wait and see. There needs to be worked out if we'll increase our weekly dues to absorb the lineage increase, or work with a smaller prize fund.

[Kerry Federer]

In our house, we provide that as a service to our league bowlers. We charge no extra for doing the work. BLS is interfaced with our scorers so the work is minimal (except at league beginning and league end). That way the cost is kept down and all the money above lane fees goes into the prize fund.

It all started years ago when I first bought BLS (version 3 I think) and I became secretary of a small league at no cost (trying to get it started). As I became proficient, I offered the services to the other leagues at no cost and the center paid for my supplies. I was helping out the center I worked at and we could keep more prize money in the funds.

When the center installed autoscoring, we then got the BLS/as and continued the process, still at no cost to the leagues. Leagues at the other houses around were paying their secretaries up to $700 for a 16 team league.

[Keith Chambers]

My "salary" varies by the league. I do the Adult/Youth league for free, my 26 team scratch league pays $10.00 per bowler, per season, and my 40 team mixed handicap league pays $.30 per bowler, per week, for 33 weeks (As part of the weekly league fees). Most of the handicap leagues in my home center (a military recreation center) pay their secretaries out of their weekly league fees and range from .30 to .50 per week. I am the only secretary using the BLS program, which makes the awards forms nearly effortless. I repeatily get comments on my forms, with all of the information printed versus other secretaries providing blank forms (usually a copy of a faxed form) for the bowler to fill in everything. One of my leagues is also a TNBA league, which has their own awards recognition program and requires a different set of award forms and some additional effort to ensure that all TNBA awards have been recognized. The center provides the recaps and standing sheets weekly.

[Lance Rasmussen]

Keith,

would your life be made a little easier of BLS could support TNBA?

Lance

[Angel Zobel-Rodriguez]

Keith,

Are you out of Admiral Robinson? The kids bowled there this summer for state tournament, and aside from having a little difficulty finding the actual building on the base, it was a gorgeous center.

[Tom Kelly]

I have two leagues, one mixed league is both sect/treasurer position, that pays .60 per bowler per week for a 30 team league, other league is also a 30 team league and for that I receive .30 for secretary only, treasurer gets .20. It really depends upon what type the league is and size, fun night, money type or big buck money type. The bigger the league and prize fund the more work that has to be done so the price should be according to type of league.

[Leslie Kidwell]

I get 25 cents for Secretary... 20 cents for treasurer.... They seperate it since years ago two people did the work

[MotorMike13]

I am Secretary on two fall/winter leagues... the Sec./tres. fee on one.. (20 teams) is $.50 per bowler per night.. and on the other (12 teams) is $.44 per night, So I guess I'm a bit over paid. LOL

[Linda Crane]

In most of the houses in NY there is only a Sec'y/Treasurer since the house does most of the work he or she does both jobs and he or she earns .50 per bowler.

[Terry E Brantley]

I have been the secretary/treasurer of a mixed league for 6 years. The league bowls for 34 weeks on Friday night in Montgomery Alabama. The league use to have about 20 teams, but lately we're down to about 12 teams, mainly due to people having other things to do on Fridays. When I took over as secretary/treasurer, the rate was $.50 per person, per nite. The previous sec/treas resigned suddenly at the beginning of that year, so I was "voted" in. I bought BLS when I took over and have upgraded each year since. I collect all monies, pay the house lineage and sanctions, and maintain the standing sheet, awards, and averages.
I enjoy my work, except it is a little hectic the first couple of nites and end of season. Since I do all of the work, and print off the standing sheets, awards, etc., I think that the $.50 fee is reasonable.

[Keith Chambers]

For Lance,
Regarding the TNBA, you already know that it would! I brought the subject to your attention almost three years ago. I am looking forward to the change that will allow me to print the TNBA forms directly from the program, and, hopefully, not have to input them as local awards every year.

For Angel,
Yes, I bowl at Admiral Robinson. We enjoyed hosting the State and were very pleased with the participation. I especially enjoyed seeing the high scores shot by the young bowlers. We do regret that there was some confusion over which gate to use and that the map the State used on their website was not that great.

[Lance Rasmussen]

We were approached by the board of TNBA directly this year to be their choice of league software for use within the organization and since BLS-2007 will now support TNBA award and membership applications, I think you will find your job easier.

[Skip Horner]

Thanks, everyone. Guess I'm a little underpaid. But, I get a lot more than the average secretary in my center (average is 18 cents or so), but those secretaries rely on the center to do their standings, etc. I don't trust the center in that respect because I know how bad the BOSS software is.

[Angel Zobel-Rodriguez]

A lot of what secretaries do is regional. Here, the houses almost all handle the league sheets and collect money at the front desk. And nearly everyone uses house banking. Heck one of the centers actually goes lane to lane to collect the fees. The leagues are nearly all "house" leagues where the center makes the calls and makes sure the teams are filled.

People here think I do a lot, but I just think it's what needs to be done (sheets, awards, verifying prize fund gets deposited correctly, etc., handling the league-end party).

Like I said before, I do it for free for the A/J leagues because I really believe they're the future of bowling. For the Sport league, it's because it's just no bother, they're really just there to bowl. If I had one of those leagues that had a meeting every week to protest something, I might start to feel differently.

[mikewhite]

Angel

I charge a flat fee of $15 per person on the team roster for the winter session & $7 for summer session no matter the size of the league. Understand that I bank outside of the center, print all sheets on my own, keep a website (although it is kinda lacking lately as I have moved back to San Marcos), & run a most valuable bowler spreadsheet. My wife chatges the Vegas league $5 flat fee only because she is an employee of the center and thats the max they will let her. SHe does the youth leagues as part of her job as youth director.

[Frederick Brace, PA-C]

I am Sect/Treas for a 24 team mixed league that pays $0.50 per bowler per night. The league pays for a ream of paper and a inkjet cartridge at the start of each season. I buy my own software upgrades.

In reference to the 50/50, we always had problems with motivating team members to "sell tickets." On week it could be a $80 split and the next week it could be $26 split. We never were able to have a designated "person."

Last year we voted $1.00 additional to the weekly league fees for all bowlers. A single 50/50 ticket for each bowler goes in each team envelope each week. The centers desk person pulls a number and the winner gets $48 and the 50/50 fund gets the same each week. My bowlers love this way!!!

Fred Brace, Dover, DE
Webmaster www.lowerdelawarebowling.com

[Angel Zobel-Rodriguez]

Mike,

You do WAY more than any other secretary I've heard of in SoCal. That would be why I interviewed you in that article last year :)

[Bob Lanouette]

In my neck of the woods, SE Mass, Sec/Treas (combined position) get anywhere from 50 to 75 cents per bowler per week to do the work. I know one sec/treas who gets a $1. For my summer adult/child league I get $1 per team per week. For my kids doubles league I get 50 cents per team per week (although I seldom keep it all). For my fall/winter adult league I get 75 cents per bowler per week (20 teams of 5 for 36 weeks). I am also the youth director for our center. I get paid minimum wage for the hours I work for the center re: youth leagues. There is no per bowler charge for the kids leagues. Most of the sec/treas I talk to feel the 'pay' really reflects compensation for dealing with the 'issues' that always come up across a season and for handling the finances. With the age of computerization, the sec part of the job is essentially minimized.

[Skip Horner]

Quote: "With the age of computerization, the sec part of the job is essentially minimized."

Except in my case. The house also does the secretary work using their crappy BOSS. Each week, I have to check my standings vs. the house sheet (so I catch their mistakes on points, and mine in score entry), and then go about getting them to match up. And, especially in week 1, or when there's a vacancy involved, I have to be a little more diligent.

[Angel Zobel-Rodriguez]

Skip,

Did you offer to do the sheets yourself, without the house? A few years back, the house was downloading the sheets and I was entering the sheets at home in order to upload the standings (center didn't have Internet access). Unfortunately, people would make corrections to the actual sheets (10 pin went into the ditch, etc) and not correct the scorers, so the scores wouldn't always match up, and worse, the sheet guy at the center wasn't really looking for errors (2+2 league, if scores were entered for a bowler not here rather than the sub, etc), so we just told the house not to do them at all. Since they switch lanes, they don't have the names in the monitors anyway. It doesn't take that long to punch in the names.

In the end, I ended up doing all my youth sheets (at least you have BOSS, we're even older than that). The only downside is that they have to learn to type the names in.

I just give a copy of the addresses and phone numbers to the house, and that's all they really want, anyway.

[Lance Rasmussen]

There is a lot of odd issues with the propietary league software from the scoring companies. Many have a unique wierd league support that was only in because a large center wouldn't purchase the autoscoring package unless it supported that feature.

Many of our scoring techs have long reccommended the center purchase (when compatible with our software, such as BOSS 8.x, 9.x and Brunswick CenterMaster or Vector Plus, or Vantage) our software as it supports the broadest number of league styles out there.

Plus... League and Tournament software.... is our livelyhood. Whereas the scoring equipment is THEIR livelyhood. This is why almost every current scoring system either uses only our software or provides it as a choice.

I do field a lot of calls where centers have run a league with the scoring software and with our autoscoring edition of our product side by side for a while to "make sure CDE is accurate". After possibly a few settings that were not correctly indicated in BLS, the results show accurately and match the secretary.

Sometimes we have even seen things be off.... And that is because the old software is not set correctly, things were not paid attention to (like Angel mentioned) or that the scoring system is off.

I'll have the propriator "do the math" sometimes when an average doesn't match or team points are right. I'll walk them through and then by our manual math, we will see BLS is right and the other software is wrong.

It does make for some "fun" sometimes when things are not correct. And sometimes... guess what. The secretary can manually enter a wrong score into BLS causing things to not match the center. Or my "favorite" thing.... is when a bowler writes down the handicap score for the scratch score on the recap or someone elses score down. I've done a lot of senior leagues over the years (and yes.. adult too) where the recaps are a mess. "Matchs points arent' right!!!!"..... Well..... how come you didn't write on the recap that Jonny and Jimmy switch lineups that night? I'm Kreskin right????

I guess thats why our ESP / Kreskin module in our products that will be released sometime in the near to distant future (ok... probably really distant) will just enter the scores for you and set the rules right before you even start the program and will know all this before you even turn on the computer. lol

[Angel Zobel-Rodriguez]

Lance, when the ESP version for secretaries comes out, please let me know--I want be first in line.

My personal favorite "uh oh" happens when a sub is used and the person writing down the scores for the other team doesn't bother to ask which bowler is which, and if I didn't happen to see that Bowler A was not the usual bowler, I'd have scores written down for him as if he did bowl.

I also update my software every season, and the one center uses BLS Pro from several seasons ago and like I said, the other center uses antique Advantage with rather unattractive dot matrix printouts. I can fit far more on a league sheet (including each game bowled which ALSO allows additional mistakes to be caught) than anything dot matrix. All the bowlers I work with prefer the look of BLS sheets.

[Karen Howard]

Here in England, I get 10p/bowler/night which equates to about 17 cents.

[Skip Horner]

Skip,

Did you offer to do the sheets yourself, without the house? A few years back, the house was downloading the sheets and I was entering the sheets at home in order to upload the standings (center didn't have Internet access). Unfortunately, people would make corrections to the actual sheets (10 pin went into the ditch, etc) and not correct the scorers, so the scores wouldn't always match up, and worse, the sheet guy at the center wasn't really looking for errors (2+2 league, if scores were entered for a bowler not here rather than the sub, etc), so we just told the house not to do them at all. Since they switch lanes, they don't have the names in the monitors anyway. It doesn't take that long to punch in the names.

In the end, I ended up doing all my youth sheets (at least you have BOSS, we're even older than that). The only downside is that they have to learn to type the names in.

I just give a copy of the addresses and phone numbers to the house, and that's all they really want, anyway.

I don't even bother, Ang. The lady that processes the leagues for the center is a "super blue hair". I'll leave it at that. She definitely was bummin' when she had nothing in the league envelope last Friday morning. (I always take everything home the first week and set her up with nicely printed stuff for BLS). Plus, the house printing up the recaps is a good thing, as they are huge (two teams, 8.5x11, landscape :) ) . I do print up my own version of the standings sheet and bring it in each week.

[Lance Rasmussen]

Skip,

I love it.... I'll remember that.... "super blue hair" lady.

Lance

[Dave Bower]

My league was 25 cents per bowler per week until this season when the league decided to allow me to bowl without paying weekly dues ($15 per week).

[Greg Paxson]

I am the sec/treas of two leagues (both Men's leagues). One is a traveling league (22x5), bowls every other Sat. I am paid $1/bowler/week. And for that I am responsible for setting up the league schedule, negotiating lineage with center, organizing the league, league/bowler certifications, weekly standing sheets (including copies), recap sheets, USBC awards, treasurer duties, payoff on last night of the league. This fee is non-negotiable and is set in stone for as long as I remain the League Manager.

The second league is a set league at Wekiva Lanes in Apopka, FL which is 28x5. I receive 50 cents/bowler/night for this one. I am responsible for the league organization (and yes I contact all of the previous team captains and floating members), data entry of the weekly scores, league/bowler certification, USBC awards, producing the weekly standing sheet (center only makes the copies for the teams), printing recaps, treasurer duties, payoff on last night of the league.

The 50 cents/bowler is the going rate here in Florida. Some leagues have reduced the Sec/Treas back to 30 cents when the centers started doing the in-house secretarial services (interfacing).

What I see from this thread is that there is no "average" since the calcualtions are derived differently around the country.

Greg Paxson, League Manager
Wekiva Men's Commercial
BPA Men's Travel League

[Dusty Clark]

I am with Dave, I get to bowl for free. So my salary is $15/wk up from $13/wk last season. No matter the size of the league my pay is equivilent to the cost of bowling. Or Treasurer gets ½ the cost of bowling per week or $7.50.

[Paul Muzio]

A good normal salary for any secretary and treasurer would be 30 cents per bowler per week for each. If the office is combined 50 cents per bowler per week would be sufficent.

If the Center does the secretarial grunt work for the week then you might consider 1/2 half the above amounts.

[Brian Atherton]

Secretary in two leagues.

I get 35 cents and the treasurer gets 25 cents per bowler in an 18 team league which after no smoking law and format change became 10 team league. Ouch! I now appreciate the league rule in my 16 team league, now 15 teams. I pay dues in the 10 team league $20/wk for 31 weeks, we bowl for 34 and have a playoff for the split season winners, rest of league bowls in a tournament. We get paid for 35 weeks.

My other league pays $200 and free bowling for the secretary and $100 plus free bowling for the treasurer. That league is 33 weeks and we do not pay dues.

I run brackets and pots. I charge $2 for the bracket, pay out $25, $7, $3, $3, and I enter the pot games for free. My new bracket payout has been very well received as the bowlers like the idea that they get 60% of their $5 back if they survive the first round.

I am planning on asking to take over the treasurer duties in both leagues when those positions become vacant. As it is now I enter the prize list and give the treasurer a print out of what he needs to get cash wise from the bank. One league - center deposits and the other is at a bank.

[Rick H]

I got into a discussion with the manager at the bowling center where my league is, and I was trying to tell him that the "going rate" for being a league's secretary/treasurer is about 25 cents/bowler/week. He's trying to tell me "No way", so I figured I'd go right to the source...

I can understand if you don't want to post that, but if a few of you could list what you average per bowler per week, I'd be grateful.

Me? It works out to about 31 cents/bowler/week (I get a "fixed yearly rate", as opposed to a set value per bowler).

Thanks in advance.

I have been a secretary/treasurer for some years now. I used to run a 12 team league. We were in a bad house. They wouldn't keep up with repairs, so we eventually went to 10 teams and then to 8. At that time, I was making $500.00 for being secretary/treasurer. With the teams going back and forth, it was to difficult the way it was set up. I got a publication from the P.B.A. In an article that was aimed at how unappreciated secretaries are, some secretaries make up to $1.00/per bowler/per night. I think that that is a lot to ask for. Last year, we moved to a new Brunswick 48 lane house. We went from 8 teams to 16 teams. It is now a full time job. I have a 208 average and am finding it more difficult to concentrate on bowling. I am being paid .50/per bowler/per night. I did hear a few people grumble about it, but what's new? I heard people grumble about my $500.00 too. I told all of the captains that they had absolutely no idea of just how much time that I spend making this league what it is. I offered to step down if they thought that someone else would want it. Guess what...no takers. It takes a special person to even WANT to do this job. You are worth every cent at .50/per bowler/per night. Don't back down from this. At .31/per bowler/per night, you are probably the lowest paid secretary. I did a google search and .50 seems to be the going rate. I also called and talked with several secretaries and they also make .50/b/n. Any questions, let me know. Good luck!

[Jeannie Widdowson]

I am paid just for Secretary $35.00 Per Team And my Treasurer is paid $10.00 per team.

[Sherree Schneider]

I was thinking I was always under paid as the secretary on our league, but after seeing the post from all the other secretaries, I realize that I was paid quite well (I took a break from the job this year after 7 years, and let my sister take it over this year for me). I/she makes .50 cents a bowler per night, which averages anywhere from a little over $600.00 to $800.00 a 36 week season depending on how many bowlers we have for the particular season. In addition, our league has a $100.00 petty cash fund which is used to pay for the bowling software upgrades, stamps, ink for the printer..etc. The center prints our recap sheets, but the sec. (who also holds the treasurer's position on our league) takes care of everything else, including banking outside of the center.

During the summer, most of the leagues are not sanctioned and the center takes care of all the standing sheets, recaps etc., and the sec. still makes .50 cents a bowler.

[Kay Passwaters]

I have been a league secretary for over 10 years now.

Three years ago, my Friday night league voted in my fee to increase to .50 per bowler/per night. But I respectfully refused that much. I did tell them though I would take .35 and it was agreed unanimously. The only stipulation I told them was to reimburse me paper and ink and supplies at the end of the year. They were thrilled with that suggestion. I am still paid .35 even though our league has declined in membership due to our house closing last year. We still have 8 teams left which we are currently bowling at in another house located in our town. At any given time we had a 18 to 20 team league in the other house. Of course I do miss the extra money, but the duties are still the same.

I have a website set up for both of my leagues, and send out a bi-weekly newsletter along with standing sheets every week. Which is all paid for by me, except for the paper and ink. The website is solely paid for by me.

As for the 50/50 problem, it was established 3 years ago on my Friday night league, that any team who does not want to sell 50/50 tickets will not get a portion back at the end of the year. This a by-law, which every team has to agree or not to agree at our initial league meeting. This has deterred alot of members from grumbling. Since those not opting to sell, doesn't get any share.

The Thursday night league 4 years gave me .35 per bowler/per night no questions asked. I was begged to become secretary on this league. Even though they understood I was not going to be a league member. I am still currently secretary of this league also. This league also has declined in membership due to the house closing. This league was a big league with 20-24 teams, which has declined to currently 8 teams.

We opted this year to raise the weekly fee, to cover the 50/50 costs, and have no 50/50 sales. I did explain to the members at our league meeting how much the league is losing by, loss of teams, and now 50/50 and lower weeks of bowling. They still opted to do away with the 50/50 sales.

Truely I miss taking care of big leagues. The smaller ones are okay, but bowlers moral is down and I know alot of that is due to the membership being down and our house closing. More people, more going on, more of everything. Now it is just Blah!

[Frank Goebel]

Yesterday, I made the mistake of honestly answering my father's question of how I'm compensated for being secretary.

Yes, there's no allowance for the size of the league, and I'm not directly reimbursed for ink and paper, software, etc. But it was just one notch short of a full lecture on how I need to go to the league demanding more. The "fault" I have is that I like to produce things like standings sheets and recaps that look good, and I'll take the time to do that...software obviously adding an "ease" to that. Of course, I have a little more time while disabled, given that I'm not working, but he can't help but notice. But the point is taken, that a weekly allowance of $8.55 doesn't compute for what is no less than three hours' work, my rough estimate of "everything" that I do, even that which isn't obvious...working through software troubles (of my own) factors into that, though no, I do not include the time I spend on here assisting others.

He did mention the league that I used to watch growing up, how they voluntarily increased secretary/treasurer compensation...the guy was great, he had the league's first ever 300 in that capacity (and I happened to be the unfortunate match-play opponent), nothing automatic or computerized at all...though, 8 teams, lineup of 5, roster of 7, was as large as it got.

The thing that I did note was that when my league was at a different center, the lineage was higher, so with the compensation directly tied to lineage (the secretary pays only prize fund amount), I'm effectively paid less...the lineage at our house is, five seasons later, still lower than it was when the league left the other house, but the league is markedly larger. At the other house though, I think the center did all the secretarial work (AMF/Advantage, just like what I have) while I have to do that in addition to BLS.

But, if I were to go in demanding great compensation, and that effectively cut into the prize fund...would that have the greater effect of causing a loss of interest in the league?

I do know of one bowler who, while he was once the secretary of a larger league, with many more headaches, was compensated the same way...he got four games' worth instead of my three, but that was it. He gave that up. But he continues as a strictly vounteer secretary of another league, where a great deal of them are extended family and the rest are like a virtual family...very relaxed league, and he does the work more than willingly for free because he really enjoys it, and everyone is more than nice to him. It's not a money league by any stretch of the imagination, anyway.

For those that read my other thread about my disability, this is the same man who set up my own league when I was at my greatest need, and I'm eternally grateful to him for having done that.

[Beebee51]

I receive $.40/bowler per week, our treasurer receives $.20--the league pays for computer program, but I pay for all paper, ink, etc.

[Ruth E Hall]

I earn $500.00 per year for my husband's union league. We have 16 teams this year. I am secretary/treasurer, do all the recaps and sheets, write a journal column for their paper, do all the banking, collect 50/50 each week and also run the jackpots.

[Connie Moore]

I have sec/treas. to a 28 team 5 person league and receive $.40 per bowler/per week, and a 24 team 4 person league and receive $.35 per bowler/per week. I handle all the financial stuff (& deposit at Center). I produce the standing sheet and a newsletter for each leage. I provide the software, ink and paper for newsletters. The center provides legal paper for standings.

Even though the cost of lineage at the Center has increased, we have not raised our weekly fees. But when we do, I am expecting a raise.

[Dusty Clark]

$56 a week?!? That's insane...imho.

[Derrick]

$56 / $5.15 per hr (minimum wage in GA) = 10.8 hrs per $56

1) Does a sec. spend 10 hours per week in league related time?

2) Is a sec.'s time worth more than min. wage?


Just questions to think about

[Dusty Clark]

1) I would hope they spend less than 10 hours per week. I only 2 or 3 hours tops. Slightly more at the beginning and ending of the season.
2) The secretary should not be a secretary to make money, they should do it because they like doing it. I guess I'm just content with my salary being that I get to bowl for free.
I was on a men's league where the secretary/treasurer recieved about $600 for the season. The house did all the secretarial work for him. To me that is not a secretary. Of course what do I know..

[Frank Goebel]

When a center does data processing work, the person holding the office of secretary still has significant responsibilities, including providing the center with the scores bowled, posting standings, handling certifications and awards, recording minutes at meetings, and receiving rosters at the beginning of the season.

Center-produced data processing is simply an out-sourcing of one secretarial duty, though the secretary is still responsible for verifying its accuracy. Whether the secretary is compensated less because of this, or if the center charges higher lineage, is a matter of the parties involved.

[Skip Horner]

Quotes:

"I have sec/treas. to a 28 team 5 person league and receive $.40 per bowler/per week"

"$56 a week?!? That's insane...imho."

"$56 / $5.15 per hr (minimum wage in GA) = 10.8 hrs per $56"

OK, .40/b/w is not out of line with what I see in this thread.

If you think $56/week is insane, then maybe the league, which votes on secretary's salary should cut it?

I hardly think a secretary is worth min. wage, I feel a sec'y should be ~$15/hr, and in my case, that's probably what it works out to be, more or less. More during the season, less during weeks 1 and 36 (we only bowl 35, 36 is the week between end of season, and awards/banquet).

One last quote: "Center-produced data processing is simply an out-sourcing of one secretarial duty, though the secretary is still responsible for verifying its accuracy."

Agreed, but, how many of "these" secretaries actually verify? I know I do, because AMF BOSS is AWFUL!

[jack silver]

we have leagues that pay $.60 per bowler per night with 12 teams for 32 weeks. we have ither secretaries that make $.80 per bowler per night with 18 teams for 36 weeks. it just depends on what the league members think is fair.

[Joyce Lost]

When I started 4 years ago the rate the league was giving the Sec-Treas was .40 per bowler per week. [I an a firm believer you should get $ per bowlers per week. A 10 league team vs a 18 team league - There is allot
more work in larger league -from membership cards, to weekly posting and printing of standing sheets and awards. Since I came with complete training in both Secretary & Treasurer jobs, and they were pleased with the new ideas and info I was able to give them on a weekly basis. In the 3rd year of ny job, the league increased my compensation to .50 per bowler. I DO NOT CHARGE - THAT IS A LEAGUES DECISSION ON THE AMOUNT THEY WANT TO GIVE TO THE SEC-TREAS.

SEVERAL YEARS AGO IN WI I WAS GIVEN THE MONEY THAT WAS COLLECTED FROM THE SPONSOR FEES.
$ 15.00 PER YEAR PER TEAM- If the Sec & Treas were split it was $10 per year per team for SEC and $5 per year per team for Treasurer.
NOW, I do everything - schedule subs, collect & check the money envelopes, deposit type up the prize lists, USE MY BLS 2007 witch is great. I use to have Boss, but BLS is way out in front. I do awards, a weekly Newsletter, and plan Christmas Gift exchange and bowlers bring in finger food. I also plan the Fun day at the end of the year. This year we are putting our Sub Fees into the Fun day prizelist. I get paid BY THE BOWLER in different ways from weekly to Monthly and to the full year. I have a great way to tracking this on the envelope. I am in a Retirement community- Bowler range in age 55- 95 yrs.old. I really enjoy doing everything I can do to make their bowling very enjoyable. [ I also change the computer on lanes when there is a problem and I am a former Youth Coach and do help them by just discussing with them where their ball goes and pins they leave. I offer only 1 thing for a day. Many haven't bowled for 20-30 years when they get here and start again. I enjoy what I do and they are all aware by how I help them and my attitude. It's my pleasure. Joyce

Have any of you had trouble with the new rule when a bowler bowls on the wrong lane? There was a change
in the front of th rule book for this year. NO RE BOWLING - JUST MOVE THE SCORE AND THE REST OF THE TEAM BOWLS ON THE CORRECT LANE.

[Jim Barbosky]

Two leagues, for both I print standing sheets, one per lane, recap sheets, sheets for the jackpot collectors. I do the banking, awards and sanctioning, also down load to LeagueSecretary and Bowl.com. Mixed league pays .25 per person per night, men's league .20. With buck a team I pay all expenses, paper, toner, stamps. I mail reminder postcards to all members in August. I restore my backups to the center's pc each week so that we can use autoscoring with correct averages and handicaps. Maybe we should be paid by how many times we answer the same question over and over, like 'what's the handicap?' 'What's a blind score?' After 20+ years of this, I'm allowed to be cranky.

[Lance Rasmussen]

Jim,

don't forget the extra 25 cents per bowler for every time a whiner comes up and says they weren't given 8 lane courtesy..... ;-)

[millsdan]

I just took over mid-season from a secretary that resigned. I will get $0.50 per bowler per night for the remaining 12 weeks of the season. We have 60 bowlers, so that will work out to about $360.00. Take out the BLS software I bought - new secretary - and that leaves about $70. I have already spent about 15 hours trying to figure out the money the previous secretary mishandled, the house has autoscoring and BLS/AS. I expect about 10 more hours fixing the mess, then life will be easier. Bottom line, I think I will net about $1.00 per hour this year.
As others have said, I'm not doing it for the money!

[David Rinaman]

The going rate for the area where I bowl in Southern California is $15.00 per bowler per season for the Secretary/Treasurer. This is true for league that I am the Sec/Treas and for leagues in which I am a bowler only. The league averages about 80 bowlers so that equals about $1,200 per season.

Typically, the house provides the standing sheets, recaps, league rule copies and usually banks the funds (unless the league chooses to do their own banking). Weekly lineage in the area is about $12.00. The secretary/treasurer takes care of ensuring the leaague is sanctioned, bowlers are certified, submits award applications, tracks league fees paid by bowlers and verifies that house score and finance records are correct (and as you all know many other things). In most leagues, the secretary/treasure collects the league fees and submits the deposit to the house or bank.

Most of the leagues that I bowl or have bowled on have their sweepers week in Las Vegas or Laughlin Nevada. In this case, the secretary/treasurer must also be a travel agent and makes arrangements with the hotel and bowling center that will be hosting the league. This may be why the secretary fee averages a little higher (around 70 cents per bowler per week).

[Videlle Marshall]

Skip: I secretary two leagues here in California. I receive $.75 per bowler per night. That is pretty common where I live. Of course, the bottom line is....how much are your bowlers willing to pay for your services.

As ever....Videlle

[Patrick Lajko]

Millsdan: The math of $360 minus BLS = $70 doesn't work out. BLS doesn't cost $290. Maybe if you bought pro edition and paid for overnight delivery and Saturday delivery, but it still doesn't come out to $290.

[Beverly L. Wirth-Sapp]

In our association the going rate for most all secreatries, myself included is $1.00 per bowler per week. We have some secretaries making more than our association manager with 16 to 24 teams. A few secretaries still get $.75 per person per week but not many. If I'm not mistaken that has been the going rate here since the 1999-2000 season.

[Betty Whisnant]

I get $.40/per bowler per week in my 6 Team/4 Member League. That comes out to $288 for the season. I receive no other compensation (free bowling, reimbursement for supplies, etc.).

I am the Secretary/Treasurer of my league and I spend an average of 1 - 2 hours per week on my duties. I spend more time the first few weeks of the league and the last two weeks of the league. I contact all bowlers prior to the season starting to remind them when it is time to meet and start, meet with league officers prior to season starting to go over changes in rules, etc., type up league rules and provide copies to every bowler (including subs); type up projected prize fund and provide to every bowler; enter scores into BLS software (which helps save a ton of time); prepare and submit sanction application for league; certification of all bowlers; verify money in envelopes prior to leaving bowling center each week; print weekly standing sheet for each team; prepare weekly deposit and deposit money at bank; print out award applications for national, state, and local as needed; post standing sheet on web site; provide each bowler with a copy of their individual bowling record at end of season; divide money to be given out for each team at end of season.

If your league has more teams, then $.40/per bowler per week might be reasonable, but with only 6 teams and 24 bowlers, I feel I am grossly underpaid for what I do. Last year, someone suggested raising my salary and most everyone laughed and said they couldn't give me a raise if the bowling center was raising their rate also (which usually happens every year).

I figured that if you add up what I spent "out of pocket" and my time (at minimum wage), I was underpaid by over $100.

It seems like $.50/per bowler is the norm for most secretary/treasurers from what I have read.

[Brian Bylls]

I took over being league secretary for the 2001 season. The previous secretary was making roughly $.40 per bowler per night. Every year since then, my salary has gone down. With the increase in lineage it was always my salary that went down to help balance the league budget/prize fund. We were 18 teams back in 2001. This year my league grew to 32 teams (center only has 32 lanes). I am paid $.30 per bowler per night. We are going on week 4 and I still don't have everything set up for the year. I spend 3-4 hours per week working on duties. PLUS an additional 20-30 hrs doing league prep over the summer. I enjoy it too much to make it about the money.

[yimmy]

I have two leagues and I get $25.00/team in one and $35.00/team in the other one{for the year} plus my bowling paid for year in both.

[Ruth MurrayAbreo]

When I first started as a secretary over 30 years ago, it was $0.25 per bowler per week. I moved to a new area and it was also $0.25 and over the years has risen to $0.75 per bowler per week. And there is one secretary in the area who gets $0.90 per bowler. None of us get any other compensation from the leagues or the centers. I believe that all of us do our own recordkeeping, making copies of standing sheets, doing newspaper reports for the sports section, sanctioning, banking, trip arrangements (if a trip league) and being the arbiter, counselor, mother/father, shoulder, etc. etc. No one paid for our league software, computers, printers or scanners. And I believe some of us in my area use the leaguesecretary.com website to post our leagues. And for the person using FrontPage, it is my understanding that Microsoft will no longer support the program - they will be coming out with something newer in time.

[Kathy Wyrwas]

The cost of BLS software is picked up by my league.

Officers in my league get compensated the lineage cost for 'x' number of weeks of bowling, varying by the amount of work they do for the league:

Secretary shall be compensated for eight (8) free weeks
Treasurer shall be compensated for six (6) free weeks
President shall be compensated for four (4) free weeks
Vice-President shall be compensated for (2) two free weeks

We don't get this as "pay" or in cash. Our Treasurer credits these amounts to us starting from the last week of bowling and earlier. (Using the per-game amount that many of you have listed, mine is equivalent to 59¢ per game.)

[James P Walsh]

For my leagues, I get 50 cents per bowler per week. I run two leagues.

[Mary Barclay]

Northern Illinois - I receive $.30 per bowler per week (33 week season). We have 11 teams this year, so that will come out to about $545. I pay for all expenses, including stamps, paper, ink for the printer, as well as my BLS updates. We pay the treasurer $200 annually. As with most secretaries, I spend the most time at the beginning and the end of the season. With BLS, my weekly duties are not very time-consuming (but I will never let the league know that!) I don't think I make minimum wage, I just enjoy the job.

[Randy R]

In our center we try and encourage the leagues to adopt a policy that is not per bowler based. We are currently suggesting to the leagues the the salary for the Sec/Tres be equivalent to the number of weeks bowled times the price per week of bowling. there were some leagues that were charging an arm and leg for secy work, we have done our part and I think the most that a secy gets paid is under 400 per year. $12 per week x 33 weeks. It seems to be working ok.

Randy Rector
General Manager
Rock River Lanes
Fort Atkinson, WI

[Connie Moore]

So it looks as though my $.35 or $.40/per bowler per week is not overpaid. One of the reasons my leagues maintain their 24 or 28/30 teams is because I work the league. I am the person who finds replacements, makes sure their awards come promptly (sorry to say not all secretaries at my center do that) and now I pay the league cost for LeagueSecretary.com goodies. I do make some money but after all I pay out, it isn't unreasonable. Some of the other secretaries in our house make more and do MUCH less. And luckily my bowlers feel I am worth it.

[Larry Pritchard]

Here in Delaware I get a flat $35 per team for the season. Ten teams is $350, 20 teams is $700. It does not matter how many bowlers are on a team. I buy the program and paper which I do not charge for. The league pays for one set of ink cartridges for the season (I provide color standing sheets and I usually go through two sets of ink).

[Beverly L. Wirth-Sapp]

I am Sect/Treas for a 24 team mixed league that pays $0.50 per bowler per night. The league pays for a ream of paper and a inkjet cartridge at the start of each season. I buy my own software upgrades.

In reference to the 50/50, we always had problems with motivating team members to "sell tickets." On week it could be a $80 split and the next week it could be $26 split. We never were able to have a designated "person."

Last year we voted $1.00 additional to the weekly league fees for all bowlers. A single 50/50 ticket for each bowler goes in each team envelope each week. The centers desk person pulls a number and the winner gets $48 and the 50/50 fund gets the same each week. My bowlers love this way!!!

Fred Brace, Dover, DE
Webmaster www.lowerdelawarebowling.com
I'm almost afraid to list my salary here. I have been a league secretary for several years and the going rate for most secretaries in our area is $1.00 per person per night. I pay for all updates to my CDE program each year out of my own pocket as well as ink and paper for the league. I handle both the secretary and treasurer duties as well as the weekly problems that arise. Some nights I'm not sure if $1.00 is enough depending on how many problems the bowlers can come up with. My salary increased from $.75 about 4 years ago.

[Graham Ginsberg]

After reading this thread, I'm going to enquire among the leagues in my area. In my league, bowlers pay $5 for the year. With a 29 or 30 week season, that works out to about $0.17 per bowler per week I think. We split that between secretary and treasurer though.

Some of the discussion on minimum wage surprised me. I never thought of this as a "job". In fact the money is considered an honorarium - a thank you from the league. For those that want to think of it as a job, are you planning on declaring it as income? More interesting though is how many hours you work at the task.

In my house the centre can do all the weekly duties except for things like processing awards. I am sure some secretaries just trust them, but we'd had so many problems especially when unusual situations arise, I do all the work with BLS and then check the house status against mine as their status is what is used for the recap sheets and the automatic scoring. They don't do any treasurer duties though.

I was also surprised that in many cases the treasurer gets a lot less. Personally I have declined to take the treasurers job on as it is disuptive to bowling. At least as secretary most of my work is before and after bowling. The treasurer needs to get all the money, check it, calcuate how much to pay the house, worry about missing bowlers and generally get his/her records straight before every body dissappears.

So far the league has bought BLS and paid for updates. I pay for my own ink and paper, mainly because I've never asked the league to compensate.

I had already planned on suggesting that we agree on a new rate before the league has its elections for next year. It might help to get a steady treasurer, where we seem to have difficulty holding onto one - three treasurers in the last three years, and all continued to bowl. I'll talk to some other local secretaries and see what they get, but 8.5c per bowler per week as a secretary seems low based on postings here.

[Skip Horner]

Quote: "And luckily my bowlers feel I am worth it."

And, that's the most important part of it. :D

[Alan Kunst]

Until last year I had 2 league that I took care of. One of which I had been secretary for 22 years. When I started doing that league, I got $15/team for a 5 person 16 team league. Over the years the league declined to a point where we were down to six 4 person teams last year, which was my last. At the end I was still only getting $25/team plus $50 for treasurer duties. To put it simply, I felt guilty asking for more money when the league was barely holding it's own. I am/was responsible for collecting bowler fees each week, paying the house, collecting recap sheets(house supplies recaps), processing scores, submitting awards & sanctions, submitting high scores to the local newspaper every week, posting the standings sheet each week, preparing and handing out all end of season stats and prizes, and contacting league officers and team captains in the fall for our start-up meeting(captains are responsible for contacting their own bowlers). I also run a couple of brackets for the league, without a program, just a copy of a bracket and an eight team league schedule to assign matchups. No fees collected for brackets, just trying to make things a bit more fun.

The other league that I handle is a fairly stable league that I've been secretary of for 15 years or so, with one three year gap because of a job change, but eventually they couldn't find anyone else willing to take it on, so like a boomerang it came back to me. We've been down to 11 teams and as high as 14 teams. This year we have 13 teams, and my secretary fee is $30/team.which puts me at just under 19 cents per bowler per night. I also get partial reimbursement for paper and ink cartridges. My responsibilities are the same as stated above for my former league.

As other people have stated I'm not really in it for the $$$, I enjoy being involved, and wouldn't do it if I didn't really like it. I take my fee at the end of the year and buy some fly fishing gear with it and feed my other obsession.

[James Hough]

I am secretary/treasurer for two adult mixed leagues and in the one I get 60 cents per team per year and in the other I get a flat $250.00 per year. I also did for 30+ years a Junior and Senior Youth league at no cost as I also feel that they are the future of bowling. Our center does not have internet access and the only back up program for there computer is done on to CD's (not sure how often). This being said I do all of the treasurer duties , print all standing sheets, do all certifications, apply for all awards (through the internet with our association), and all prize fund distribution at the end of the year. The general rule of thumb around our area is that the sec./treasurer should get at least enough to pay for the bowling fees for the year. I also bought and update my program each year out of my pocket and have a back up program (run each night at 1:00 am) to a seperate system (REV Drive) and also through League Secretary.com.

[Edward Merriam]

I get $20 per team, for the adult league of 4 bowlers per team. It comes out to about .16 per bowler per week. This is a mixed league and I do not take care of the weekly dues. I know I am on the low end of the scale but I'm easy and I enjoy doing it. I own the program and pay for the updates each year out of my pocket. I also have started running brackets and majic number and mystery score games.

Ed Merriam

[jack silver]

about the amount of money a secretary/treasurer makes you people you should come to northg carolina as the secretary/treasurer in some leagues make $.85 per bowler per night down to $.60 per bowler per night and the leagues run from 32 to 36 weeks they make a living off of it.

[Edward Merriam]

I charge $20 per team for the year. It comes out to about 17 cents per bowler per week. I pay all my expenses., Paper, ink, year end booklets and the program. I also have started running brackets, mystery game & magic number pools. All the money collected goes back to the bowlers. In other words I do not take a cut. I take care of all sanctioning, awards and anything else that comes up. This is for adult leagues, Junior Leagues are done for free but I only do the averages and recaps, print out the reports and give the Director a copy of everything. After doing it for about 30 years the people that bowl in the league know everything will be by the book and fair. Very few complaints.
Ed Merriam
MA

[redskinscott]

When i started, as both Sec/Tres, i was making .30 cents a bowler. We were a 14 team league of 5. Now we have grown to 18 teams, and at last years meeting, much to my suprise, a motion was made to give me a raise to .50 cents and overwhelming passed. Now i do everything except the standing sheets, the center does that. But i collect the fees, i count it, i deposit them at a bank, etc.. So i feel i am justified for .50 cents per bowler.

I do have a question, when there is a problem or question about anything, do you find your bowler coming to you vice the president or vice president. No matter what, bowling on the wrong lane, issues with someones bowling style, etc. do you find them coming to you for answers.

[Larry Zaideman]

It seems that's the case more than not, most President are nothing but a name on the checking account and a figure head. Even some association the Association manager is the same way.

[femailhandler]

:) .50 a game. I have 16 teams and do Sec and Treas jobs and put out a newsletter and remind bowlers in the middle of the summer of fall meeting by post card. I feel I earn my money and I also love my job. As for the presidents, some help and some don't, they have changed over the years. I try to stress at the "elect officers meeting" the importance of every position and to be wise in their choices, sometimes it helps.

[cathy vogel]

My wife and I have been doing sec/tres work off and on for 17 years we used to ger .25 per bowler per night then it changed to .35 per bowler and now for the last 3 years its been .50 per bowler. It's the same for summer or fall leagues. We have a couple leagues near us that chrge 1.00 per bowler per week. :)

[Joey Nereu]

In my neck of the woods, SE Mass, Sec/Treas (combined position) get anywhere from 50 to 75 cents per bowler per week to do the work. I know one sec/treas who gets a $1. For my summer adult/child league I get $1 per team per week. For my kids doubles league I get 50 cents per team per week (although I seldom keep it all). For my fall/winter adult league I get 75 cents per bowler per week (20 teams of 5 for 36 weeks). I am also the youth director for our center. I get paid minimum wage for the hours I work for the center re: youth leagues. There is no per bowler charge for the kids leagues. Most of the sec/treas I talk to feel the 'pay' really reflects compensation for dealing with the 'issues' that always come up across a season and for handling the finances. With the age of computerization, the sec part of the job is essentially minimized.

I run one summer league, and have just added a winter league as well. I get $0.75 per bowler per week.

Oh, and Bob Lanouette is paid far too much ;)

[Hal Schoppman]

...Here, the houses almost all handle the league sheets and collect money at the front desk. And nearly everyone uses house banking. Heck one of the centers actually goes lane to lane to collect the fees...
In your leagues where the house collects and banks the money, who keeps track of the individual bowler's payments? Does the house let you know which bowlers are in arrears each week and how much they owe?

PS: In small leagues we pay the secretary approx 45¢ per bowler for 3 games. Large leagues (25-30 teams) a little less. The secretary does all inputting, printing, awards tracking and distribution, prepare ballots to vote on prize funds, etc.

[Richny]

.30 per bowler per night for secretary and .25 for treasurer.