League Prize Funds

[Keith Chambers]

Another general question of "What Do You Do"
My Wednesday Night Mixed League consists of 40, four person teams (2 men and 2 women) and voted to have a split season, with a Championship Playoff at the end of the season, the other 38 teams would bowl a team sweeper. There was some discussion about the sweeper, but almost none on the split season and playoff. We had the same format the last two seasons.
Now comes the prize list balloting - three proposals, two with provisions for the playoffs and sweeper, plus team and individual high score awards. One had a point money pay out of $7.35 and the other $8.10. The third option pays the 1st, 10th, 20th, 30th, and 40th place teams position money. It also pays team and individual high score awards - at a flat $10 per person in each category, and pays the point money at $8.33. No prize money was set aside for the sweeper.
38 teams returned their ballots and 29 of them voted for the third option! This league has a tradition of voting for the proposal with the most point money! Many of them did not even look at the rest of the proposal.
The following week at a Team Captain's meeting the President proposed that we change the league rules to match the majority's choice of prize list and eliminate the split season and championship playoff since only one team would cash anyway. Discussion was heated and somewhat off subject as most wanted to revote the prize fund, not to change the league rules. A written ballot was passed around for the Team Captains to vote on the proposal with the understanding that a single NO vote defeated the proposal. The 3rd team to sign the ballot voted NO. End of discussion.
A couple of questions - can the league officers choose to not present a prize fund proposal when it is not in compliance with the league rules? What would you do? What do you think about this situation?

[Frank Goebel]

The thing about your adopted list really confounds me - that point money is awarded to all teams based on points earned during the season, but that only five selected teams - that is, the teams that happen to finish in positions 1, 10, 20, 30, and 40, receive position money? Now, this sounds like an invalid prize fund, because there appears to be a bonus for finishing in last place (the 39th place team would not earn position money) and, even if the 40th position prize is $1 per bowler, it's still a bonus for finishing last, a bonus for poor performance. If there's a reward for low performance, that can suggest a reward for sandbagging, and that's something I believe the USBC would not approve. That alone might get the prize list invalidated and require reconsideration.

I would contact the association and present the full prize list proposals together with ballot results. I don't know how one would handle the adoption of a prize list that was submitted in error (contrary to league rules), though if it were ruled that the adopted list must stand because unanimous consent to reconsider could not be obtained, then the sweeper would only be organized open bowling. Or, it could simply be not bowled this season, with the understanding that next season the prize list submissions would be reviewed for compliance.

One idea might be to have the vice president serve as the chair of the prize committee, where the committee itself would select its own chair if the vice president has to serve as acting president due to vacancy or absence. The vice president or prize committee chair would then be charged with the duty of reviewing all proposals for compliance and then, with the secretary, prepare ballots. The secretary and treasurer (or secretary/treasurer) should also be ex officio committee members, where the former would act for team ballotting purposes and the latter, for financial accuracy.

Hindsight is always 20-20....

[Angel Zobel-Rodriguez]

In my Sport league, the president chooses a committee of captains (mostly long term, but from all over the standings--not just the top 4 or 5 teams). I present one or two proposals and then we keep tweaking them. Some years, committee members bring their own proposals. We take feedback from anyone nosy enough to poke around while we are discussing it (we do it during league, between frames, about week 4-5). When we reach concensus (not majority), we present one proposed prize fund.

I hate presenting two or more actual proposals because, like in the example, people don't actually read it. At the end of the season, someone will always complain when it affects their team negatively.

When we present the "committee's recommended prize fund" to the teams, I also let the bowlers know anyone in strong opposition to the one submitted is welcome to present their own before the end of the evening. For the most part, we don't even get grumbles.

That said, we never use point money--only place money. We also tend to pay a pretty flat prize fund. Despite being a Sport league, it's far from a blood and guts league, and we don't want to scare off the newer teams, and we don't want to make it impossible to recruit new bowlers should someone quit.

[Derrick]

Keith, the sweepers money should come from the money paid during the sweeper week. If you pay $5 per week into the prize fund, then your 40 teams of 4 bowlers would have 40*4*5=$800 for sweeper payouts. Make sure to have bowlers paid for this sweepers week inadvance so that you have the money if bowlers choose not to bowl that last week.

At least that is how we do it.

[Frank Goebel]

It's hard to say that the sweeper mentioned here is a "special contest" (such as an end-of-season high/low for a league would be) since two teams are unable to participate in the sweeper itself due to them being in what is essentially a roll-off....the sweeper is instead organized like a league session for the other teams. Special contests are defined as being open to all league members, so having a roll-off at the same time invalidates that notion. Special contests are also supposed to be optional, but it seems like here it's a required participation.

It's really an additional league session, just that lane assignments are set up based on, initially, the segment winners and then, by whatever rules are in place. Since it's part roll-off, that part of the contest is a "bonus" for becoming league champions, and for the rest, I suppose that they could have prizes available for the dues that may be collected at that session, if there are any.

If it were indeed a "special contest", then dues collected for prizes for that contest must be paid out 100% in prizes for winners in that contest only, not migrated to the league's funds, or vice versa. It's just tricky, in my opinion, to consider that to be the case due to the coinciding roll-off.

[Keith Chambers]

Angel, thanks for your comments. We have discussed having a proposal presented at the organization meeting, but we are usually short bowlers in the first two weeks and that would require adjustments to the proposal. USBC also advised me that we have to have a "separate vote" on the prize list.
Derrick and Frank, I think you missed the basis of the question. This league usually bowls a sweeper at the end of the winter season, but does not have one in the summer. The guidance that I gave the prize committee included the amount of money that would be "collected" for the sweeper week, minus the portion that the playoff teams would pay. The committee elected to not use that portion of the guidance. The last two weeks fees are paid early in the season and includes the sweeper week.
The fact is that we are stuck with a bad prize list because it was approved by an overwhelming majority of the teams. That they did not read the proposal before casting their vote does not negate their vote - kind of like voting for Kerry and then saying that you really meant to vote for Bush would not change your ballot counting for Kerry.
The ONLY way to change the outcome is for all 40 Team Captains to vote, in writing, to reconsider the ballot. That ain't going to happen!
In hindsight - I should have had the proposals returned to me before being presented to the Board - or made sure that all proposals included prize money for the Champion and Runner Up teams, and since the league had already voted to have an end of season Sweeper, prize money should have been required for any proposal. The President and I both trusted that the committee would do the "right thing" and got burned.

[Derrick]

Frank,

That last week during the roll-off / sweeper is for all teams. Regardless of the teams standings they are all able to participate in high game, high series side pots. I don't know how other leagues conduct their sweepers, but our league pays the top X amount of high handicap game and top X amount of high handicap series for that night. The money comes from the weekly fee's prize fund portion and is paid out 100%.

I get the impression Frank that you think two teams are bowling "serious" and the other teams are bowling for 'fun'. If I am wrong, let me know.

There is no reason to exclude the two (or more) teams bowling in the roll off from the sweepers as it is not an actual league session.


My references....

Playoffs
Rule 113a. A playoff is a separate competition conducted to determine league champions and/or break ties
in the league standings [CAQ #86]. A playoff must be conducted:

2. To determine a champion when the league bowls a split season;


Playoff Procedures
Rule 113b. A playoff may not consist of less than one game. [CAQ #85]

1. The following procedures apply, unless the league rules state otherwise:

a. Playoffs consist of the same number of games and are conducted under the same rules governing
league play during the regular season. [CAQ #’s 82, 84 and 86]

e. Playoff games do not count toward individual averages or special league prizes.

Let me know if you feel there is any other reason to not allow all 40 teams to participate in the sweeper (aside from it being in their league rules that only the 38 teams would participate in it).


Keith,

You have a loop hole. That sweepers week is NOT a league week. Money collected for that week is not to be used for point money for league wins. Your league must redraft a prize fund based on only the money that the league takes in during the league. You'll also want to designate where the sweepers money goes on that night. You already have, per league rules, money set aside for the sweepers. What you don't have is how to disperse it. It is correct that once a prize list has been approved, it can not be changed without written consent from every team captain, but you will just have to tell them that there was an error on the submitted prize list and to be able to fix it each captain must sing your pre-printed approval to dimiss the current prize fund and accept your pre-drawn up revision, OR vote among the BoDs summited prize lists. Failure to to so will put the league's prize payouts in jeopardy; there just will not be enough money in the prize fund to pay out the proposed amounts! Unless each team member wanted to cover their share of the shorted amount, which would be equal to one night prize fund portion of the weekly fees. This would then leave you with the money for the sweeper which you'll still have to figure out how to pay out.

I can't find anywhere that says specifically sweeper week money league money, but then again, it doesn't say it is either. Stand up and tell them that sweeper money can not be used as point money, since the league would have already been over.

If they insist or you feel you have no grounds to do what I just told you, then there will just be no sweeper money. Those 38 teams bowling the sweeper night will be open bowling at league time. There will be no money for them to bowl for, since it has already been accounted for and paid out (theoretically). Standing are already FINAL. There are no wins/loses on that sweeper night. Except for total pin fall of the playoff.

Let us know what happens.


Derrick

[Frank Goebel]

Derrick - to simply, my comments/observations were always aimed at what I was trying to understanding what the format was in Keith's league based on what I read in his original post, and when you offered your comments, you had brought up a topic I hadn't originally considered. My second response, therefore, was based on how I saw the issue you introduced, but still aimed at his league (not yours).

One thing we have to remember is that there are different "norms" either in centers or regions around the country, and when one says "my league does it this way", it should not be taken that as any method being superior or inferior, just how something should remain within USBC compliance, or to exchange ideas.

The sweeper is something that I've never come across in any of the leagues in which I've participated or observed, so it's only when a question like this comes up, I can only comment based on what's presented.

[Keith Chambers]

Derrick,
While I agree with most of your comments and solutions; it is now OBE as one of the Team Captains contacted USBC Rules and got a response that the "approved" Prize List can only be changed by a 100% agreement of the Team Captains.
End of Season Sweepers came into being in this area when bowling banquets fell out of favor. Only a very few leagues still have banquets and many do not even have a sweeper. The Wednesday Night league has a sweeper at the end of the winter league, usually with a playoff for the league championship, and pays out the prize money that night. In the summer, the sweeper is replaced by a winter league organization meeting - no bowling. Next Spring that will be the situation for this league. If two different teams win the two halves, then they will roll off - three games, total pins with handicap for the first place prize. (In this case the loser gets a friendly handshake and nothing to put in their pockets).
As one would expect in a 40 team league, there are just enough sea-lawyers to keep things stirred up and any effort to just throw out the approved prize list will surely result in more drastic actions by someone. Every time there is a disagreement, we have several opinions and usually end up with one from the USBC Rules counselors to resolve the issue at hand.
I am positive that this will come up at the next organization meeting - and that someone will introduce a proposed rule to prevent it from happening again.
Perhaps in your area, you can stand up and declare something to be - and your league will follow step; that is not the case here and especially in this league. I must also add that I have spent several years conditioning this league to adopt "good" rules, to follow the guidelines of USBC suggested rules, and then enforce the rules that are approved. In this case I screwed up by not screening the proposals BEFORE the prize committee presented them to the league and that will not happen again.
I really appreciate everyone's comments on this subject. It helps to know that there are like minded people in other parts of the country (world), even if we might have a different approach to a given subject.

[Derrick]

Keith,

Contact USBC rules dept and ask them about a prize list that was approved, but due to an over-sight, calculations were off and the league will not have the amount of funds for the prize fund as the approved prize sheet had accounted for; you will have less money to pay out then was approved to pay out. Let them know that you are aware of a 100% vote from team captains to revise an approved prize list, and that you can not get that required 100% vote. Ask them who should cover the shortage Will USBC supply the missing funds? Should the bowlers pay out of pocket to cover the shortage? Will the league treasurer have to pay out of pocket for this mistake? Can there be a revocation of the approved prize list without a team captains vote due to this error?

There is still time to get this worked out.


And out of curiosity, how does paying 1st, 10th, 20th, 30th, and 40th place work?

[Keith Chambers]

Derrick,
Sorry to be so long in responding to your question. The committee put this proposal together as a "throw in" and did not think anyone would actually take it seriously. They were WRONG!
The winner of the roll-off between the two half winners will take the 1st place money. The other position money will be determined by total wins for the season. Definitely not a good proposal and I think that there have been a lot of lessons learned in this evolution!
Can't say that I am looking forward to the end of this season.

Keith