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Frank Goebel
April 17th, 2008, 09:08 PM
I have another thread here dealing with a league member that tonight I found out was occasionally recording a higher score than that bowled. As with the other thread, this is in a league in which I am not secretary, but that person has asked me for my input.

He went into detail about how these scores were altered and how he recognized the pattern. When confronted, she did not deny doing it. Even with her scores, she would be the high female bowler in the league.

The secretary wanted to declare her receiving the prize for the overall high female average null and present it to the next high female. After lengthy discussion (mostly me listening to all he had to say), I told him that he didn't have the authority to act unilaterally on it. This had to be addressed by the board.

Here's where things get complicated. The league president is her father. The number two female average in the league is her mother. I am a teammate of her father.

I told him that a board meeting would need to be called, and that the president would have to recuse himself out of conflict of interest. I also would have to attend this meeting to represent my team. The secretary (actually a secretary/treasurer) suggested that the president would respond by not even coming. Our season-ending hi-lo is next week.

My response to that was to have him make his first call to the league vice president, who fortunately is in a very neutral position, and that she would have to run the meeting. The secretary would have to make detailed minutes in case a vote was taken to suspend under misconduct. I believe in this case the appropriate rule is 115a. I gave this secretary a synopsis of what he would need to do at such a meeting.

I'm just curious as to any comments you might have. For those that read my other thread about the team where the three family members haven't paid two non-related teammates after having won a tournament: This is the same family.

Lance Rasmussen
April 17th, 2008, 10:35 PM
I would check with the national rules department.

Rule 116a6 Errors in scoring or calculation must be corrected by a league official. Any questionable errors in scoring or calculation shall be decided by the leagues' board.

Did the captians sign the recaps? Rule 104a5

The person could be charged with rule 17b1 - Engaging in improper tactics or conduct in connection with the game of bowling

The secretary is responsible for recording all the scores bowled- Rule 102e5. That may or may not be cause for responsibility for what was written on the recap vs what was actually bowled. The secretary should probably be getting a recap of the scores actually bowled by the autoscoring system.

The board could determine which games should be deemed null and void (the ones she manipulated). Then those are removed from that person's record, including high scores. 103b/2

Frank Goebel
April 18th, 2008, 03:59 PM
The secretary gave her the benefit of the doubt early on. He takes the sheets home and processes them in BLS, prints standings and recaps, then at the lanes immediately prior to bowling, processes in AMF/Advantage. It's then that he detects the problem. The "benefit of doubt" notion is that a bowler might record an actual score based on a scoring error (say, a late pin to fall on an eleventh frame strike).

What raised his eyebrows was that it was always the same bowler, always the third game, and always 5 or 10 pins. He confronted her a few times and she did not deny it.

Captains don't sign recaps in this league. It's a fun league with a host of prizes, including high average/single/series in each of eight divisions, does charity donations, runs a festive banquet, and the cash prizes aren't that large.

The manipulation of scores, anyway, is a matter of principle and I almost acted like Dr. Laura when responding to the secretary. "You've got to do the right thing and do something about this, address it properly...if you don't do the right thing, you're effectively giving her permission to continue doing the wrong thing."

I'll inform him of what you mentioned here. I don't think they would declare games null and void, but if they did, would that effective give her teams losses for those games if they did, making her effectively ineligible for those games?

I did speak to the secretary this morning after he'd had a conversation with the association manager. According to the latter, the president would still be able to run the meeting (but it's presumed that they'd stay home as a family). I still told him to make his first phone call to the vice president to have her at the ready to stand in, and of course, I'd be a resource to him and her about this. I successfully processed an ABC suspension a few years ago, crossing all my tees and dotting every eye.

Lance Rasmussen
April 18th, 2008, 04:16 PM
If the secretary kept the Autoscoring records, then there would be potential to use those scores as corrections.

HOWEVER, as that was intentional, I would personally null those games. That was intentional and misconduct. That person's games for those in question would be void and it could potentially cause that team to loose those games. That's the way the ten pin falls.

Even when it's a fun league, this type of behaviour can create a negative impact on the league in the future. That could irk off bowlers causing them not to rejoin.

I think by playing fairly and dealing with this situation to set the records straight and to discipline the bowler correctly, this will give the impression of fairness throught the league and hopefully allow the "spanking" to set in and detour the offender from repeating this behaviour.

Frank Goebel
April 25th, 2008, 05:10 PM
A meeting was held last Sunday, which was rather hastily convened. There was definitely some shouting there. The parents didn't recuse themselves; their argument was that many of the team reps were related to the secretary or otherwise connected. The president's argument was that a written list of the charges wasn't yet presented; an heated argument ensued that got personal and other past incidents were brought up (I voice my objection to those not being germane to the discussion). The secretary was accused of yelling at the bowler over the phone and accusing her of cheating, something he denies and is very against his character, which I've known for half his life. In the end, because the sheets were never signed - it's just not bothered with - one very neutral person moved to take no action other than to actually start having sheets signed in the future. That was the only voted action.

At the hi-lo, which ran very well, the secretary privately mentioned that a couple people suggested nominating me to be the next president. As if I don't have enough to do, but they cited that I had a good command of the rules. I said I'd consider. The conventional wisdom is that the family won't return, but nobody's going to go out of their way to either say it out loud, nor do anything to bring that about.

Dusty Clark
April 28th, 2008, 04:50 AM
Signing the sheets really means nothing. The last part of this applies to your situation since it was removed from the center when the error was found. I'll bet that any team that bowls this person in the future will definitely make sure the scores are being written down correctly.

CAQ #116a/3
Can an error on a score sheet or recap sheet be corrected after the team captains have signed the recap sheet?

Yes. Although Rule 104a, Item 5, and Rule 116a, Item 5, require the captains to sign the scorebook and verify the scores bowled, their signatures do not prevent a score from being corrected. An officer is required by Rule 116a, Item 6, to correct errors if they are found after the captains have signed the recap sheets. Both captains should be notified of the corrections.

However, if a score sheet is removed from the center and an error is found, the matter needs to be referred to the board for a decision.

amos.garnto
October 14th, 2008, 05:05 PM
I don't care what kind of league this is, it is obvious someone's morals are corrupt and there is no room for them in our bowling communities. I think the whole family (we are talking about a family, right? Or is it the whole community that seems related?). Every effort should be expended to get these "do-gooders" suspended from bowling in any USBC sanctioned league or tournament. Of course, if its not sanctioned, then let the Hatfields and McCoys duke it out and don't bother CDE or USBC with it.